Thanks for this. I was a big follower of Joyce until her husband also. Then Beth Moore. Such a shame that she was pushed out by white evangelical men. Crazy how that comes around in the same context as our current administration. Our power should come from Jesus alone. Nothing in the Bible preaches white men in power.
I cannot totally agree with your article. I, too, have deconstructed from the patriarchy of many “churches”.
But I still have a deep belief and faith in Jesus and his teachings.
Please people, DON’T throw the baby out with the bath water!!! Belief and faith in Jesus and his teachings has NOTHING to do with the patriarchy, power and control many churches have built.
If you truly listen to Beth Moore, she is following that same journey. Many attack her because she is on this same journey and that is what your article does. You are not Giving her the grace to continue her journey.
In my deconstruction, I have sought out why patriarchy was able to take such a strong hold in the first place. The Bible was translated at different times in history by men. They did the translations according to the laws and social customs of their time.
Going back to the original texts shows many translations are not quite what Jesus said. Even the original Old Testament was translated to the customs of the time.
Example: in many places of the original text, it may have said humankind, humans, people, etc., but they transcribed those words as man or men, because they couldn’t imagine a woman being included.
So we need to deconstruct how and what we were taught, not throw out being Christian.
This is also part of Beth Moore’s journey.
Your article disparages a truly, to the heart Christian woman who needs the Grace and understanding as the scales of patriarchy are lifted from her eyes.
I am a Christian! I don’t believe in patriarchy. I don’t believe deconstructing Christianity has to include no longer being Christian. I do believe it is searching for truths in ancient texts to correct the long taught misinterpretations. Love all people.
And give Beth Moore the grace for her own journey.
My writing does not disparage Beth. It is an honest assessment of what she has publicly stated at one time or another. When a person who relies on her public following openly states her concern that judges will be elected who will allow for women to have autonomy over their bodies, they leave themselves open for this type of critique. I could have even been more direct, because Beth is hiding behind the suffering of women who have experienced assault and ignoring the right of women to have autonomy over their bodies. In other words, Beth feels justified in using her platform to be political when it serves her, then falls silent on other issues.
But I’ll even be more candid with you, Janet. You do not belong in this space. Telling people not to throw out the baby with the bathwater is one of the most harmful, judgmental, and condescending things a Christian can say to deconstructing Christians. You are here to judge and malign and vomit your beliefs on those of us who have either been harmed by Christianity or to weaponize your religious indoctrination to be morally and spiritually superior without empathy, which you have mastered.
Your insult continues when you tell me, a former southern Baptist who spent years in Bible study, taught and led a multitude of study groups, founded children’s study programs, etc. that I needed to “truly listen” to Beth. As if you know anything about how others have tried desperately to stay within their religious heritage and worked tirelessly to cling to it, as every day it revealed its flaws that truly harmed people.
And to assume that deconstructing means that we do not still seek some understanding of or relationship with Jesus is outrageous and one of the worst insults you can hurl at us. “Relationship with Jesus” doesn’t have to meet your approval to be holy and sacred. Your ignorance and arrogance about this reflect how caustic a person you truly are — the worst kind of Christian that many of us are grateful to no longer be in community with.
If you are here to learn, then sit down and listen. You have a great deal to learn and understand about deconstructing, because it is clear that your closed-mindedness is preventing you from reading anything I wrote through the eyes of the deconstructing. You’d do well to spend time learning what it means to be empathic and to listen to learn.
But if that isn’t your goal, I am not the one. I won’t block you, but rest assured that I will put you on blast every time you attempt to come in here with your sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude that makes the rest of us shout “hallelujah” that we are free from people like you at last.
I was all in…until I wasn’t. Beth’s autobiographical audible version carried me through painting my guest bedroom. I, too, felt something just wasn’t right with her story. You have articulated this so well.
So many of us have truly divorced ourselves from the toxic realities of our racist, homophobic, and misogynistic churches, especially during Trump’s entry into his reign as president. In my church, the issues were thinly veiled. Beginning in the early 2000’s, I started openly questioning many issues. I was dismissed, inexpertly gaslit, or was instructed to commit to more quiet time in my proverbial “prayer closet” (late diagnosed adhd in my 60’s revealed the absolute nightmare I’d experienced on the daily of early morning sequestration- with a book I didn’t really believe was inerrant- for a set amount of time- by READING instead of watching a video about it). Then came Covid, revealing anti-maskers within my church, many of whom were “good” friends. I was shocked. Thus began the formal process of deconstruction, including throwing out all of my of my Beth Moore Bible study books, among others.
Beth, leaving the SBC while maintaining similar toxic beliefs, likens to Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo leaving Bill Gothard to cleave to John MacArthur.
Thank you for this! I’m so glad this writing is finding the right people and not getting pushed to those who simply wouldn’t get it. I’m inspired by these comments. I need to look up the vuolo/gothard/macarthur pipeline because I wasn’t influenced by Gothard (at least not directly).
I did all of Beth Moore's Bible Studies with a group of women at my church in the 90's. All of them until I quit. I divorced in 2005 and that changed a lot for me as my eyes were opened.
Even though I attended a fairly liberal church at the time there was a group of Trumpers that I eventually couldn't stomach and left. I'd never go back. I now attend a UCC church which is open and affirming and feel it is more in alignment with the gospel I know. I'm glad Beth left ( was kicked out of) the SBC. I could never do that again. White men who are power hungry have ruined the world
I enjoyed your story, and broadly concur with it. I know deconstruction is a messy business and different for everyone. Not all who deconstruct deconvert. I did, but it took a violent jolt (which I share on my Substack). My hot take is that if you haven't deconverted, you haven't finished deconstructing. But, given it took me six decades, I give grace to those who still working on their relationship to reality. Someone like Beth Moore, whose entire identity and livelihood is tied up in her faith, isn't going to deconvert anytime soon. But she might, and I look forward to that day.
“My hot take is that if you haven't deconverted, you haven't finished deconstructing.”
Thank you for your comment. I wonder if a season of deconverting is necessary for white women, or we just simply look for the same version of what we deconstructed from. I know in the early days of my deconstructing, I was desperately seeking a church to replace the one I had left. There are many reasons it didn’t work out. I’m just grateful it didn’t. But looking back that even in my season of attending progressive churches, I experienced and witnessed some wild misogyny that was not only tolerated but protected. Church just has to be for the right reasons, but too many still want the spoon-feeding from the pulpit that organized religion gives them.
It’s a common experience to look for a different church. We did that for a time, and it didn't work out either. For me the problem is systemic: All churches ultimately share the same harmful ancient middle-eastern myth-base, the Bible. So they're programed to hurt and are toxic to ideas outside their ancient and antiquated 'worldview.' Like the place of women, or the LGBTIQA+ community. Thankfully, we've (mostly) moved on from that, but Christianity hasn't and can't. They're stuck with it.
Rev, I found this article so interesting. I spent lots of hours listening to those 2 women. Joyce had bad grammar (I'm from the south and I get it but it still drove me insane). Beth was always more palatable but I was raised in the methodist church... and I really dislike the Baptist ways. So I left them behind long ago. I'm unchurched but still consider myself Christian (I follow the teachings of Jesus). This whole trump era has turned my world and my faith upside down.
Question: what do you believe or subscribe to since you consider yourself a former Christian? I ask because I'm a little lost. I can't seem to let go of my faith in Jesus. I also talk to the archangels quite a bit. I find healing and comfort there. Anyway, just wondering what you DO believe! Maybe you could point to some of your writings that explain it? Thx!
I love how many women find similarities in this story. I’ll share more. Regarding my beliefs, it’s too long to share here. Here’s one article that may help. https://revkarla.substack.com/p/godless-spirituality but I also have several in 2025 where I openly discussed untethering from my Christian heritage. check out 8/17/25 and an article called “why i’m no longer a Christian.” Be looking soon for a book reading group that we’ll be doing here, starting with my book “Deconstructing.” I believe it will help people with the same questions you have.
Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer weren't part of my faith journey, but this was such a fascinating peek into that world! Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.
You are a very much needed voice within this realm…someone to provoke deeper thought. Thank you for identifying this niche of need that you are exquisitely prepared to address, and for doing so. From my many years of religious experience of all kinds, I just have to think of the absolute bedlam of chaos that will ensue when aliens finally do visit earth, in an open way, again. Their reality (although I know some still question it) is proof and admonishment of the falsity of modern traditional Christianity, which has tried to obscure their existence. Within archeology, we all have proof of very ancient alien presence on earth, and it contradicts the resultant Christian theology of today…even though the Old Testament speaks of ancient aliens. All of us have been led astray in the pursuit of mankind’s need of domination.
I think of this similarly, but my thoughts go to the number of times that wars have been labeled as signaling the beginning of the apocalypse. There’s never a reckoning for the ones who justified world wars and genocides as necessary for the return of Jesus. It’s sickening and I keep thinking that someday Christians will finally come face to face with this and the “absolutely bedlam of chaos” that you perfectly described will ensue.
I understand the feeling in a general sense. As of November '24, I have not attended church on a regular basis, and when I go, it is in time for worship service. I was in a men's Sunday School class, and I was the lone liberal/ progressive in the class. The others leaned conservative, mostly believing that trump can do no wrong, and the Democrats can do no right. After the election in '24, I found that most of the church members voted for trump.
One day last year, while working on the job as a part-time custodian, a church friend talked to me, and she knew that I have not been attending church for some time. She asked me why I was not attending Sunday School, and my response was short but simple: Politics. She told me that an individual should follow one leader, and that leader is Jesus. She mentioned talking to the men's class teacher about politics, stating that there are subjects that should not be discussed in a Sunday School session. Still, she understood my position.
I still attend church at times, and I still love the people there, but it is not easy having fellowship with them; I know that all of them did not vote for trump, though.
It’s a difficult journey, and I do understand the complexities in navigating the desire for community and the gathering even though everyone is not aligned with you politically. Beth is a leader/teacher, so I see her role differently. But there is space in this conversation for the powerful feelings this writing is invoking.
Oh wow, this brought me back. I like you had the same journey, Joyce to Beth.
I too felt the same way, for me my deconstruction led me all the way out of church. I threw out the baby and the bath water. I could see no way back.
And yet, i remember the chills I would get listening to Beth and Joyce. I had never knew the word of God could enrapture me so.
I was memorized by their teachings. Of all that I count as a loss, it is the passion that stirred in me during that time. Like finally, someone articulating what I knew in my bones about God.
I do believe Beth is genuine to her core, but like you there is just too much there I can’t unsee. How could you see what the church chose in trump, see what the church aligned itself with, see the cost to women, minorities, immigrants, and quite frankly humanity and find a nice quiet conservative church to settle into?
And you are right, there are stages of deconstruction. I remember many times thinking - that too Lord, that too?
But yes, that too. It all had to go. Deconstructing for me was no less than tearing up the entire floorboards and looking at all the rot. Moving out of the house, having no house, walking through life in a liminal space.
So I extend anyone the time it takes for that to happen. And yet, how much more do you have to see to declare the whole damn religion was built on a lie?
Anyway, this piece got me thinking about all that.
For what it’s worth, I think the story will turn. The last will be first.
Any ‘religion’ that does not have LOVE as its foundation and all aspects of its teachings and workings upon and involving LOVE is one to steer clear of.
Thanks for this. I was a big follower of Joyce until her husband also. Then Beth Moore. Such a shame that she was pushed out by white evangelical men. Crazy how that comes around in the same context as our current administration. Our power should come from Jesus alone. Nothing in the Bible preaches white men in power.
I cannot totally agree with your article. I, too, have deconstructed from the patriarchy of many “churches”.
But I still have a deep belief and faith in Jesus and his teachings.
Please people, DON’T throw the baby out with the bath water!!! Belief and faith in Jesus and his teachings has NOTHING to do with the patriarchy, power and control many churches have built.
If you truly listen to Beth Moore, she is following that same journey. Many attack her because she is on this same journey and that is what your article does. You are not Giving her the grace to continue her journey.
In my deconstruction, I have sought out why patriarchy was able to take such a strong hold in the first place. The Bible was translated at different times in history by men. They did the translations according to the laws and social customs of their time.
Going back to the original texts shows many translations are not quite what Jesus said. Even the original Old Testament was translated to the customs of the time.
Example: in many places of the original text, it may have said humankind, humans, people, etc., but they transcribed those words as man or men, because they couldn’t imagine a woman being included.
So we need to deconstruct how and what we were taught, not throw out being Christian.
This is also part of Beth Moore’s journey.
Your article disparages a truly, to the heart Christian woman who needs the Grace and understanding as the scales of patriarchy are lifted from her eyes.
I am a Christian! I don’t believe in patriarchy. I don’t believe deconstructing Christianity has to include no longer being Christian. I do believe it is searching for truths in ancient texts to correct the long taught misinterpretations. Love all people.
And give Beth Moore the grace for her own journey.
My writing does not disparage Beth. It is an honest assessment of what she has publicly stated at one time or another. When a person who relies on her public following openly states her concern that judges will be elected who will allow for women to have autonomy over their bodies, they leave themselves open for this type of critique. I could have even been more direct, because Beth is hiding behind the suffering of women who have experienced assault and ignoring the right of women to have autonomy over their bodies. In other words, Beth feels justified in using her platform to be political when it serves her, then falls silent on other issues.
But I’ll even be more candid with you, Janet. You do not belong in this space. Telling people not to throw out the baby with the bathwater is one of the most harmful, judgmental, and condescending things a Christian can say to deconstructing Christians. You are here to judge and malign and vomit your beliefs on those of us who have either been harmed by Christianity or to weaponize your religious indoctrination to be morally and spiritually superior without empathy, which you have mastered.
Your insult continues when you tell me, a former southern Baptist who spent years in Bible study, taught and led a multitude of study groups, founded children’s study programs, etc. that I needed to “truly listen” to Beth. As if you know anything about how others have tried desperately to stay within their religious heritage and worked tirelessly to cling to it, as every day it revealed its flaws that truly harmed people.
And to assume that deconstructing means that we do not still seek some understanding of or relationship with Jesus is outrageous and one of the worst insults you can hurl at us. “Relationship with Jesus” doesn’t have to meet your approval to be holy and sacred. Your ignorance and arrogance about this reflect how caustic a person you truly are — the worst kind of Christian that many of us are grateful to no longer be in community with.
If you are here to learn, then sit down and listen. You have a great deal to learn and understand about deconstructing, because it is clear that your closed-mindedness is preventing you from reading anything I wrote through the eyes of the deconstructing. You’d do well to spend time learning what it means to be empathic and to listen to learn.
But if that isn’t your goal, I am not the one. I won’t block you, but rest assured that I will put you on blast every time you attempt to come in here with your sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude that makes the rest of us shout “hallelujah” that we are free from people like you at last.
damn gina!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I was all in…until I wasn’t. Beth’s autobiographical audible version carried me through painting my guest bedroom. I, too, felt something just wasn’t right with her story. You have articulated this so well.
So many of us have truly divorced ourselves from the toxic realities of our racist, homophobic, and misogynistic churches, especially during Trump’s entry into his reign as president. In my church, the issues were thinly veiled. Beginning in the early 2000’s, I started openly questioning many issues. I was dismissed, inexpertly gaslit, or was instructed to commit to more quiet time in my proverbial “prayer closet” (late diagnosed adhd in my 60’s revealed the absolute nightmare I’d experienced on the daily of early morning sequestration- with a book I didn’t really believe was inerrant- for a set amount of time- by READING instead of watching a video about it). Then came Covid, revealing anti-maskers within my church, many of whom were “good” friends. I was shocked. Thus began the formal process of deconstruction, including throwing out all of my of my Beth Moore Bible study books, among others.
Beth, leaving the SBC while maintaining similar toxic beliefs, likens to Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo leaving Bill Gothard to cleave to John MacArthur.
I smelled a performative rat.
Thank you for this! I’m so glad this writing is finding the right people and not getting pushed to those who simply wouldn’t get it. I’m inspired by these comments. I need to look up the vuolo/gothard/macarthur pipeline because I wasn’t influenced by Gothard (at least not directly).
I did all of Beth Moore's Bible Studies with a group of women at my church in the 90's. All of them until I quit. I divorced in 2005 and that changed a lot for me as my eyes were opened.
Even though I attended a fairly liberal church at the time there was a group of Trumpers that I eventually couldn't stomach and left. I'd never go back. I now attend a UCC church which is open and affirming and feel it is more in alignment with the gospel I know. I'm glad Beth left ( was kicked out of) the SBC. I could never do that again. White men who are power hungry have ruined the world
I enjoyed your story, and broadly concur with it. I know deconstruction is a messy business and different for everyone. Not all who deconstruct deconvert. I did, but it took a violent jolt (which I share on my Substack). My hot take is that if you haven't deconverted, you haven't finished deconstructing. But, given it took me six decades, I give grace to those who still working on their relationship to reality. Someone like Beth Moore, whose entire identity and livelihood is tied up in her faith, isn't going to deconvert anytime soon. But she might, and I look forward to that day.
“My hot take is that if you haven't deconverted, you haven't finished deconstructing.”
Thank you for your comment. I wonder if a season of deconverting is necessary for white women, or we just simply look for the same version of what we deconstructed from. I know in the early days of my deconstructing, I was desperately seeking a church to replace the one I had left. There are many reasons it didn’t work out. I’m just grateful it didn’t. But looking back that even in my season of attending progressive churches, I experienced and witnessed some wild misogyny that was not only tolerated but protected. Church just has to be for the right reasons, but too many still want the spoon-feeding from the pulpit that organized religion gives them.
It’s a common experience to look for a different church. We did that for a time, and it didn't work out either. For me the problem is systemic: All churches ultimately share the same harmful ancient middle-eastern myth-base, the Bible. So they're programed to hurt and are toxic to ideas outside their ancient and antiquated 'worldview.' Like the place of women, or the LGBTIQA+ community. Thankfully, we've (mostly) moved on from that, but Christianity hasn't and can't. They're stuck with it.
Rev, I found this article so interesting. I spent lots of hours listening to those 2 women. Joyce had bad grammar (I'm from the south and I get it but it still drove me insane). Beth was always more palatable but I was raised in the methodist church... and I really dislike the Baptist ways. So I left them behind long ago. I'm unchurched but still consider myself Christian (I follow the teachings of Jesus). This whole trump era has turned my world and my faith upside down.
Question: what do you believe or subscribe to since you consider yourself a former Christian? I ask because I'm a little lost. I can't seem to let go of my faith in Jesus. I also talk to the archangels quite a bit. I find healing and comfort there. Anyway, just wondering what you DO believe! Maybe you could point to some of your writings that explain it? Thx!
I love how many women find similarities in this story. I’ll share more. Regarding my beliefs, it’s too long to share here. Here’s one article that may help. https://revkarla.substack.com/p/godless-spirituality but I also have several in 2025 where I openly discussed untethering from my Christian heritage. check out 8/17/25 and an article called “why i’m no longer a Christian.” Be looking soon for a book reading group that we’ll be doing here, starting with my book “Deconstructing.” I believe it will help people with the same questions you have.
Thank you!!
Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer weren't part of my faith journey, but this was such a fascinating peek into that world! Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.
Thank you. It’s healing to reflect from this place of deconstructing and looking back on some of these memories!
You are a very much needed voice within this realm…someone to provoke deeper thought. Thank you for identifying this niche of need that you are exquisitely prepared to address, and for doing so. From my many years of religious experience of all kinds, I just have to think of the absolute bedlam of chaos that will ensue when aliens finally do visit earth, in an open way, again. Their reality (although I know some still question it) is proof and admonishment of the falsity of modern traditional Christianity, which has tried to obscure their existence. Within archeology, we all have proof of very ancient alien presence on earth, and it contradicts the resultant Christian theology of today…even though the Old Testament speaks of ancient aliens. All of us have been led astray in the pursuit of mankind’s need of domination.
I think of this similarly, but my thoughts go to the number of times that wars have been labeled as signaling the beginning of the apocalypse. There’s never a reckoning for the ones who justified world wars and genocides as necessary for the return of Jesus. It’s sickening and I keep thinking that someday Christians will finally come face to face with this and the “absolutely bedlam of chaos” that you perfectly described will ensue.
I understand the feeling in a general sense. As of November '24, I have not attended church on a regular basis, and when I go, it is in time for worship service. I was in a men's Sunday School class, and I was the lone liberal/ progressive in the class. The others leaned conservative, mostly believing that trump can do no wrong, and the Democrats can do no right. After the election in '24, I found that most of the church members voted for trump.
One day last year, while working on the job as a part-time custodian, a church friend talked to me, and she knew that I have not been attending church for some time. She asked me why I was not attending Sunday School, and my response was short but simple: Politics. She told me that an individual should follow one leader, and that leader is Jesus. She mentioned talking to the men's class teacher about politics, stating that there are subjects that should not be discussed in a Sunday School session. Still, she understood my position.
I still attend church at times, and I still love the people there, but it is not easy having fellowship with them; I know that all of them did not vote for trump, though.
I will end here.
It’s a difficult journey, and I do understand the complexities in navigating the desire for community and the gathering even though everyone is not aligned with you politically. Beth is a leader/teacher, so I see her role differently. But there is space in this conversation for the powerful feelings this writing is invoking.
Oh wow, this brought me back. I like you had the same journey, Joyce to Beth.
I too felt the same way, for me my deconstruction led me all the way out of church. I threw out the baby and the bath water. I could see no way back.
And yet, i remember the chills I would get listening to Beth and Joyce. I had never knew the word of God could enrapture me so.
I was memorized by their teachings. Of all that I count as a loss, it is the passion that stirred in me during that time. Like finally, someone articulating what I knew in my bones about God.
I do believe Beth is genuine to her core, but like you there is just too much there I can’t unsee. How could you see what the church chose in trump, see what the church aligned itself with, see the cost to women, minorities, immigrants, and quite frankly humanity and find a nice quiet conservative church to settle into?
And you are right, there are stages of deconstruction. I remember many times thinking - that too Lord, that too?
But yes, that too. It all had to go. Deconstructing for me was no less than tearing up the entire floorboards and looking at all the rot. Moving out of the house, having no house, walking through life in a liminal space.
So I extend anyone the time it takes for that to happen. And yet, how much more do you have to see to declare the whole damn religion was built on a lie?
Anyway, this piece got me thinking about all that.
For what it’s worth, I think the story will turn. The last will be first.
Thank you for sharing. We are indeed on similar deconstructing journeys.
Any ‘religion’ that does not have LOVE as its foundation and all aspects of its teachings and workings upon and involving LOVE is one to steer clear of.